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      12-17-2015, 09:56 AM   #331
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Originally Posted by Fundguy1 View Post
Curious how a 5 yr vetting process can fit into that time frame. Also curious how someone fleeing a marauding group of religious zealots is supposed to wait 5 years to evacuate.
It doesn't, because you made the 5 year vetting process number up.

It takes 18-24 months, which does fall into that time frame. Per the article I posted:

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The process typically takes one to two years or longer and happens before a refugee ever gets onto American soil.
So again, it doesn't contradict itself, you're just making things up.
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      12-17-2015, 12:27 PM   #332
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I want them fully vetted before they arrive. What's the flipping point of vetting them here? FB I doesn't have the resources to track the ones here already. It takes 20 agents to track someone. They need tens of thousands of agents more just to effectively watch whose here already. They said that after 6 months they don't even bother which is disturbing in 2 ways. 1, they aren't watching them. 2. They announced it which means they know to just wait 6 months to do anything.
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      12-17-2015, 12:36 PM   #333
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Originally Posted by Fundguy1 View Post
I want them fully vetted before they arrive. What's the flipping point of vetting them here?
We don't vet them here. The entire vetting process happens overseas. They can't set foot in the US until they pass.

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FB I doesn't have the resources to track the ones here already. It takes 20 agents to track someone. They need tens of thousands of agents more just to effectively watch whose here already. They said that after 6 months they don't even bother which is disturbing in 2 ways. 1, they aren't watching them. 2. They announced it which means they know to just wait 6 months to do anything.
They don't need to "track" anyone once they've received asylum.

But I do agree with you, if we can't verify something due to lack of information (not every single Syrian refugee lack documentation that can be verified or cross-references), they shouldn't pass the clearance process. I'd imagine that's how the process currently works. Since you didn't read the article I posted which explained the process:

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Before refugees face U.S. screening, they must get a referral from the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees (or occasionally a U.S. embassy or another NGO). The UN refers about 1 percent of refugees for resettlement through its own vetting process, which takes four to 10 months. During that process, UN officials decide if people actually qualify as refugees, if they require resettlement, and which country would accept them.

Once the cases are passed along to the United States, the refugees undergo security clearances. Their names, biographical information and fingerprints are run through federal terrorism and criminal databases. Meanwhile, the refugees are interviewed by Department of Homeland Security officials. If approved, they then undergo a medical screening, a match with sponsor agencies, "cultural orientation" classes and one final security clearance.

Syrian refugees in particular must clear one additional hurdle. Their documents are placed under extra scrutiny and cross-referenced with classified and unclassified information.
As for how efficient the screening process is and the gaps that may be present:

Quote:
The head of the National Counterterrorism Center told Congress in October that the intelligence in Syria is "not as rich as we would like it to be," while FBI Director James Comey told Congress there are "gaps" in data availability.

Challenges and gaps, however, don’t translate into "no ability" to vet at all.

"No system is foolproof. If we really wanted a foolproof system, we would shut down immigration entirely," said David Martin, a University of Virginia professor who’s previously held posts at DHS and the State Department. "The alarm is way overblown."

According to the State Department, Syrians tend to have more identity documents than other refugee groups around the world, and the reasons they give for missing documents (a bomb dropping on their house) can be verified.

Experts also warned against conflating the European vetting process, which is extremely chaotic, with the process used by the United States.

In the United States, very few resettled refugees — three since 9/11, according to the Washington Post’s Fact Checker — have been implicated in terrorist situations. Daryl Grisgraber of Refugees International pointed out that the Tsarnaevs came to the United States as children from Chechnya and applied for asylum, but were radicalized here.

Refugees are subject to the highest level of security checks of any traveler category to the United States. So for ISIS to take advantage of the refugee program "makes no operational sense," said Anne Speckhard, a counterterrorism expert at Georgetown University.

"Given how easy it is to send a European extremist to the U.S. via Europe, why would an ISIS guy in Syria wait the three years it takes to get refugee status?" she said.
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      12-17-2015, 04:18 PM   #334
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Then how are some 1,800 here if they went through the 5 year vetting process overseas and the conflict started 3 years ago? How come homeland security uses the information provided to them by Greece to check their backgrounds? And what about all the "real" fake papers you can buy in syria?
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      12-17-2015, 04:21 PM   #335
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Originally Posted by Fundguy1 View Post
Then how are some 1,800 here if they went through the 5 year vetting process overseas and the conflict started 3 years ago?
For what is probably the 3rd or 4th time. The vetting process takes 1-2 years, I even explicitly quoted it from the article I posted. I'm not sure where you get the 5 year figure from. I think another member here posted that but he or she is wrong.

The rest of the questions I don't know the answers to since I don't even know if they're true. Where did you hear about all that from since it's the first I've heard of them.
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      12-17-2015, 05:22 PM   #336
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CNN did a special showing a guy making passports with real Syrian blanks.
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      12-17-2015, 05:51 PM   #337
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CNN did a special showing a guy making passports with real Syrian blanks.
Yes. That's true. They can basically make "real" fake passports for a nominal fee. That and the fact that there is no access to any Syrian databases and we are relying on our or foreign non-syrian government knowledge to verify someone, which unless we know about them is basically no knowledge, makes vetting a joke.
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      12-17-2015, 11:27 PM   #338
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BrokenVert is the one who said it takes 5+ years for the refugees to get entrance to the US - which clearly isn't true.

Fundguy- you are upset about a ceiling of 10,000 refugees per year that Obama is proposing? See my previous link - 102,000+ Syrians have been quietly settled in the US since 2012. Obama's 10k number is a red herring.
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      12-18-2015, 08:56 AM   #339
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bbbbmw View Post
BrokenVert is the one who said it takes 5+ years for the refugees to get entrance to the US - which clearly isn't true.

Fundguy- you are upset about a ceiling of 10,000 refugees per year that Obama is proposing? See my previous link - 102,000+ Syrians have been quietly settled in the US since 2012. Obama's 10k number is a red herring.
Wow weird, apparently I've been using the word "upwards" wrong for years.

Meant to say it can take up to 5 years, which is true. Many refugees have been told that they won't even be able to start the paperwork for US relocation until 2018.
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      12-18-2015, 10:27 AM   #340
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Saw this in the news today:

"In his meeting with the columnists, Mr. Obama indicated that he did not see enough cable television to fully appreciate the anxiety after the attacks in Paris and San Bernardino, and made clear that he plans to step up his public arguments."

That was published in the NYTimes, and then they deleted the paragraph without explaining the edit:

http://www.mediaite.com/online/ny-ti...ama-admission/

Obama didn't watch enough cable TV to understand how Americans feel? I'm not an Obama fan, but even if I was - that's incredibly stupid and indefensible, IMO.
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      12-18-2015, 11:08 AM   #341
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      12-18-2015, 11:21 AM   #342
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Just implant a microchip in everyone everywhere.
I'll get mine immediately.

Act like dogs, get treated like them.
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      12-18-2015, 04:58 PM   #343
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gonzo View Post
Just implant a microchip in everyone everywhere.
I'll get mine immediately.

Act like dogs, get treated like them.
Now you're preaching the apocalypse/end of times. No mark of the beast for me
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      12-19-2015, 04:30 AM   #344
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UncleWede View Post
Now you're preaching the apocalypse/end of times. No mark of the beast for me
Actually, I was preaching good old sarcasm. The people acting like dogs bit is applicable.
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      12-21-2015, 10:10 AM   #345
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gonzo View Post
Actually, I was preaching good old sarcasm. The people acting like dogs bit is applicable.
We REALLY need that sarcasm font installed
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      12-21-2015, 10:12 AM   #346
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UncleWede View Post
Now you're preaching the apocalypse/end of times. No mark of the beast for me
Mark of the beast is "666"
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      12-21-2015, 10:27 AM   #347
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Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium View Post
Mark of the beast is "666"
But anything like a chip that I have to have inserted so that I can get 'government-sponsored" access to food, services, etc. is also considered the mark.
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      12-21-2015, 10:31 AM   #348
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UncleWede View Post
But anything like a chip that I have to have inserted so that I can get 'government-sponsored" access to food, services, etc. is also considered the mark.
I know my friend..I was joking as usual .
Sorry for that ...
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      12-21-2015, 11:06 AM   #349
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bbbbmw View Post
Saw this in the news today:

"In his meeting with the columnists, Mr. Obama indicated that he did not see enough cable television to fully appreciate the anxiety after the attacks in Paris and San Bernardino, and made clear that he plans to step up his public arguments."

That was published in the NYTimes, and then they deleted the paragraph without explaining the edit:

http://www.mediaite.com/online/ny-ti...ama-admission/

Obama didn't watch enough cable TV to understand how Americans feel? I'm not an Obama fan, but even if I was - that's incredibly stupid and indefensible, IMO.
Yes. His idea of how to protect us is to take our guns away making us defenseless while the terrorists and criminals get theirs illegally. Makes perfect sense.
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      12-21-2015, 11:31 AM   #350
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but he had time to go hang out in front of a glacier eating smores with Bear. . .
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      12-31-2015, 05:15 PM   #351
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I am a Canadian and so have a different take on immigrants and refugees. Most of the people my age that I know in Vancouver are immigrants and/or refugees [as I am]. Our diverse demography makes living here interesting and fun. Ironically, the original inhabitants here [from various first nation bands], are having the most difficult times economically and socially. My guess is that most of you who are afraid of Syrian and other non white christian refugees come from mono cultures with little diversity of opinion or life style. Historically, this kind of environment has triggered: the Know Nothing Party [hating anybody not born in the US, non Protestants, not white male]; slavery [or considering them to be less than human of blacks, natives, Irish, Chinese]; and excluding or limiting immigration of Japanese, Chinese, Irish, Germans, Jews, Muslims, Vietnamese, Mexicans, Catholics, Indians and a few more I suppose. The USA and Canada owe their wealth, social flexibility, and even democracy, to the immigrants who came to North America. The people with the courage, intelligence, flexibility and persistence to overcome the very difficult social and language transition and transportation nightmares to leave their native land to get to a better place to live- these are definite assets to any nation smart enough to take them. I am happy to say that Canada has governments [Federal, Provincial, and Municipal] that are now openly welcoming Syrian and other refugees, and we realize that we have to actively help them learn our culture, language and lifestyle, encourage the kids to feel welcome in our schools and community centers [my community center is offering language, sports, and entrance into programs to Syrian adults and kids new to our neighborhood].
If you Americans truly are in the land of the free and brave, stop being so afraid of people who are a bit different than you, and open up your mind and your world.
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      12-31-2015, 08:21 PM   #352
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Xdnbc, this is the problem...

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Theodore Roosevelt's ideas on Immigrants and being an AMERICAN (OR ANY OTHER COUNTRY NATIONAL) in 1907.

"In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the person's becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American ... There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag ... We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language ... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."

Theodore Roosevelt 1907
---------


The problem is immigrants these days are not trying to integrate and become whatever nations new citizens... They socially outcast themselves and demand whatever nation to understand them (not all, but it seems pretty heavy). You're here because apparently you didn't like where you came from... WELCOME! Now become one of us.
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