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      11-19-2015, 12:01 PM   #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bbbbmw View Post
The next column shows whether they were naturalized or born here. Then compare the "born here" column with the names. The point is that there is no control on immigrants who ultimately terrorize Americans. And the lack of response from the Obama Admin confirms it. Had these people not been here we could have avoided 72 attacks that year.

Edit: nor are they tracking anyone once they get here
Ah got it, thanks for clarifying.
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      11-19-2015, 12:13 PM   #134
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FYI

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...rian-refugees/

Also

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      11-19-2015, 12:30 PM   #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MightyMouseTech View Post
To answer the original question, it is being a decent human being and caring for your fellow man.
Theyre brown. Brown is scary. I once shipped a package through UPS and the box got all dented. Never again!

Quote:
Originally Posted by gonzo View Post
JV squad
Contained
Setback

Tee-time?
Yes. Because no president other than Obama has ever been wrong about terrorism.

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      11-19-2015, 12:40 PM   #136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrokenVert View Post
Theyre brown. Brown is scary. I once shipped a package through UPS and the box got all dented. Never again!



Yes. Because no president other than Obama has ever been wrong about terrorism.

The ol deflect and blame game. Thing is, there's a big difference between wrong and deny.
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      11-19-2015, 12:43 PM   #137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gonzo View Post
The ol deflect and blame game. Thing is, there's a big difference between wrong and deny.
Just pointing out that nobody is infallible.

The JV Squad comment was from over a year ago. Funny thing about JV teams, given time they grow up and become varsity athletes.


I can make an argument that Bush denied the threat of Al Qaeda in 2003 just as easily as I can argue that Obama was wrong about the strength of ISIS this past year.

I see the actions of both presidents being the same.
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      11-19-2015, 12:54 PM   #138
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gonzo View Post
The ol deflect and blame game. Thing is, there's a big difference between wrong and deny.
If we're going to be fair, while the JV comment was a genuinely stupid comment from him, the "contained" comment is taken grossly out of context.

The contained comment comes from an answer he gave to a question surrounding ISIS in Iraq and Syria where he stated that they're contained in those specific regions, not contained in general.

So when put into context, what he said about being "contained" is actually factually accurate.
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      11-19-2015, 01:06 PM   #139
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From that PDF, it seems our bigger concern should be north African refugees. I think I only saw Syria listed as a home country once.
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      11-19-2015, 01:14 PM   #140
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MightyMouseTech View Post
I am absolutely OK with it.
Sweet. You Canadians can take all of them........and feel really good about helping "your fellow man".

Last edited by MPerformance211; 11-19-2015 at 01:36 PM..
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      11-19-2015, 02:13 PM   #141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fecurtis View Post
If we're going to be fair, while the JV comment was a genuinely stupid comment from him, the "contained" comment is taken grossly out of context.

The contained comment comes from an answer he gave to a question surrounding ISIS in Iraq and Syria where he stated that they're contained in those specific regions, not contained in general.

So when put into context, what he said about being "contained" is actually factually accurate.
Look at it from any angle with a neutral position. Using the word contained was a horrible choice. I don't care what was said before or after its usage.
And those blocks he later said contained was directed at...nothing over there is contained.

Saying Paris is a setback is appalling and a slap in the face and can't be "splained" away by rug burned knees Josh either.
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      11-19-2015, 02:37 PM   #142
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iv been hearing people comparing this refugee crisis to the jewish refugee crisis after WW2 and it drives me nuts.
this pretty much sums it up

http://www.dailywire.com/news/1217/n...YvOeU.facebook
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      11-19-2015, 02:41 PM   #143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrokenVert View Post
Just pointing out that nobody is infallible.

The JV Squad comment was from over a year ago. Funny thing about JV teams, given time they grow up and become varsity athletes.
You're being extremely misleading about Obama's intent behind using that phrase...when he referred to ISIS as a "JV" team, he was clearly implying that they were not a dangerous threat as compared to other perceived threats we were facing at the time.

You don't even need hindsight to realize the lack of judgement in making that kind of statement. He made that statement in the beginning of 2014 after ISIS had already started to make significant gains in both Iraq and Syria. There were intel reports from the DoD and CIA indicating what was going on, but they were largely disregarded by the Administration.


Quote:
Originally Posted by BrokenVert View Post
I can make an argument that Bush denied the threat of Al Qaeda in 2003 just as easily as I can argue that Obama was wrong about the strength of ISIS this past year.

I see the actions of both presidents being the same.
Bush didn't deny the threat of Al Qaeda in 2003, he prematurely declared victory after Iraq had just been freed from decades of dictatorial rule, a nation containing many different ethnic groups, none of whom had any experience with democracy...his 'Victory Accomplished' speech was premature and unwise, but he wasn't denying anything, as no one had anticipated that sectarian and religious violence would become such an issue there.
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Last edited by Dalko43; 11-19-2015 at 02:46 PM..
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      11-19-2015, 02:45 PM   #144
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gonzo View Post
Look at it from any angle with a neutral position. Using the word contained was a horrible choice. I don't care what was said before or after its usage.
So let me get this right, answering the question:

"ISIS is gaining strength, aren't they?"

With:

"What is true is that from the start, our goal has been first to contain, and we have contained them. They have not gained ground in Iraq. And in Syria they'll come in, they'll leave. But you don't see this systematic march by ISIL across the terrain."

Is wrong? If you were looking at it from a neutral position (which you don't because you've made it quite clear you drink the partisan kool aid), you'd see that he answered the question and what he said is factually true. That's exactly why they've gone into Europe now. That's not just what I think, https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...2c2_story.html.

I don't understand why saying the attacks in Paris are a "setback" in the fight against ISIS is such a travesty. That's just more mindless nitpicking at vernacular and choice of words. It's a non-issue.
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      11-19-2015, 02:47 PM   #145
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Obama flat out had the intelligence reports altered to indicate no major crisis. If he didn't like what he was told he sent them back!

Crooked as a snake and lies like a dog.
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      11-19-2015, 02:50 PM   #146
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gonzo View Post
Obama flat out had the intelligence reports altered to indicate no major crisis. If he didn't like what he was told he sent them back.
Uh huh. And what lovely source did you get that from?
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      11-19-2015, 02:51 PM   #147
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fecurtis View Post
So let me get this right, answering the question:

"ISIS is gaining strength, aren't they?"

With:

"What is true is that from the start, our goal has been first to contain, and we have contained them. They have not gained ground in Iraq. And in Syria they'll come in, they'll leave. But you don't see this systematic march by ISIL across the terrain."

Is wrong? If you were looking at it from a neutral position (which you don't because you've made it quite clear you drink the partisan kool aid), you'd see that he answered the question and what he said is factually true. That's exactly why they've gone into Europe now. That's not just what I think, https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...2c2_story.html.

I don't understand why saying the attacks in Paris are a "setback" in the fight against ISIS is such a travesty. That's just more mindless nitpicking at vernacular and choice of words. It's a non-issue.
It's obvious I don't like him?
I won't get to work on that.

Partisan? Nope. Terrified of our president.
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      11-19-2015, 02:53 PM   #148
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fecurtis View Post
Uh huh. And what lovely source did you get that from?
Someone can link it. In multiple news reports. Was near mutiny.

Here, I'll grab it.
Back soon.
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      11-19-2015, 02:56 PM   #149
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fecurtis View Post
Uh huh. And what lovely source did you get that from?

http://www.thedailybeast.com/article...as-cooked.html

http://www.businessinsider.com/obama...ligence-2015-9

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/report-a...e-assessments/

Would you like me to keep going?

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/26/wo...isis.html?_r=0
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      11-19-2015, 02:57 PM   #150
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The TIMES ran it!

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/09/16...?referer=&_r=0


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      11-19-2015, 02:59 PM   #151
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dalko43 View Post
You're being extremely misleading about Obama's intent behind using that phrase...when he referred to ISIS as a "JV" team, he was clearly implying that they were not a dangerous threat as compared to other perceived threats we were facing at the time.

You don't even need hindsight to realize the lack of judgement in making that kind of statement. He made that statement in the beginning of 2014 after ISIS had already started to make significant gains in both Iraq and Syria. There were intel reports from the DoD and CIA indicating what was going on, but they were largely disregarded by the Administration.
Because they weren't as dangerous when they started. It took them time to gain ground.

Hence my comment about the JV team growing up and becoming Varsity athletes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dalko43 View Post
Bush didn't deny the threat of Al Qaeda in 2003, he prematurely declared victory after Iraq had just been freed from decades of dictatorial rule, a nation containing many different ethnic groups, none of whom had any experience with democracy...his 'Victory Accomplished' speech was premature and unwise, but he wasn't denying anything, as no one had anticipated that sectarian and religious violence would become such an issue there.
I said I could make the argument that Bush denied that Al Qaeda was a threat in 2003 with the Mission Accomplished speech. Not saying that I did.

The point of that was to highlight how partisan views make people believe that Bush was right and Obama wrong or vise versa. I was saying that I consider both Mission Accomplished and JV Squad to be the same in terms of prematurity and wrongness.
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      11-19-2015, 03:00 PM   #152
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fecurtis View Post
So let me get this right, answering the question:

"ISIS is gaining strength, aren't they?"

With:

"What is true is that from the start, our goal has been first to contain, and we have contained them. They have not gained ground in Iraq. And in Syria they'll come in, they'll leave. But you don't see this systematic march by ISIL across the terrain."

Is wrong? If you were looking at it from a neutral position (which you don't because you've made it quite clear you drink the partisan kool aid), you'd see that he answered the question and what he said is factually true. That's exactly why they've gone into Europe now. That's not just what I think, https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...2c2_story.html.

I don't understand why saying the attacks in Paris are a "setback" in the fight against ISIS is such a travesty. That's just more mindless nitpicking at vernacular and choice of words. It's a non-issue.
The question itself was broad and open-ended. Was the interviewer simply asking about ISIS' geographic territory or was he asking about ISIS' international network and sleeper cell capabilities?

The answer Obama gave was very specific, focused on the physical territory ISIS controlled. The President was not at all addressing the threat of ISIS spreading its influence through asymmetric means (like what we've seen in France on 2 different occasions).

And even within the context of geographic territory, Obama was playing the game of half-full vs half-empty...have we really "contained" ISIS, or has ISIS simply chosen its not worth the manpower and resources to try and take more territory at this time?

The President's answer, while not factually wrong, was not at all insightful or well thought out; he was simply providing an explanation of ISIS' territories at that moment in time.
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      11-19-2015, 03:03 PM   #153
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Learned something new. If the allegations are true, then this administration is more spineless than I thought. I always got the impression that his administration was arrogant and tended to be full of "yes men", but this is much, much worse. Altering intelligence for political purposes is just abhorrent.

Thanks for sharing.
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      11-19-2015, 03:05 PM   #154
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrokenVert View Post
Because they weren't as dangerous when they started. It took them time to gain ground.

Hence my comment about the JV team growing up and becoming Varsity athletes.
According to the NY times, and many other news outlets, the intelligence community was informing President Obama that ISIS was serious threat as early as 2013, certainly before he made his JV comment:

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/30/wo...reat.html?_r=0

And, the President's comment was not implying that ISIS would grow into a bigger threat in the future; it was that he didn't think they were a serious threat at all.
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