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      11-20-2015, 04:54 PM   #177
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Yes. The majority of the "refugees" are fighting age single males. Let's not forget the women and children one of the Paris attackers was a woman who already had put on a suicide bomb and the Boston bombers came here as kids.
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      11-20-2015, 05:12 PM   #178
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2.6 millions Muslims in the US; last time I checked they weren't involved in any of the gun violence that claimed the lives of how many school age/ college age Americans in their classrooms?

Not disagreeing, just wish the gun lobby group wasn't also the anti immigration/refugee group. Maybe then, we'd actually protect innocent lives...

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      11-20-2015, 07:13 PM   #179
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Originally Posted by Fundguy1 View Post
Yes. The majority of the "refugees" are fighting age single males. Let's not forget the women and children one of the Paris attackers was a woman who already had put on a suicide bomb and the Boston bombers came here as kids.
The scary thing is that most of the terrorists in the Paris attack weren't on any of our watch lists. So, how does the gov't think that their vetting process is sound? In this scenario, if these guys tried to come over, they probably would have made it in based on them not being on any watch lists.
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      11-20-2015, 08:30 PM   #180
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomHudson View Post
2.6 millions Muslims in the US; last time I checked they weren't involved in any of the gun violence that claimed the lives of how many school age/ college age Americans in their classrooms?

Not disagreeing, just wish the gun lobby group wasn't also the anti immigration/refugee group. Maybe then, we'd actually protect innocent lives...

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The gun lobby group is the group protecting the innocent lives from guns. The school shootings you refer to were in gun free zones. All of them. The movie theatre etc. If a good guy with a gun had been present, many lives would have been saved.

In colleges there would have been 2 carry people per classroom on average. In grade schools, an armed guard should be required as in every gun free zone. If you want to disarm everyone, then it should be a requirement to provide armed protection. If it isnt, people hurt should be able to sue.
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      11-20-2015, 08:32 PM   #181
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Protection of you and your family is on you, not laws or cops. Criminals don't respect laws, they will ALWAYS be able to get a gun, and cops only clean up the mess and arrest the guys who killed you.
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      11-20-2015, 08:52 PM   #182
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I never understood your line of argument. I grew up in North Jersey by nyc. I was always fearful that any thug with a gun or knife would attack me so it was a live in fear atmosphere Now I live in Florida and I carry. I feel soooooo much more safe for myself and anyone near me that I can defend if needed. No its not vigilante. I'm not looking for bad guys and hope I never have to use it. But if I do need it, it's better to have it than not.

Want to protect the kids? Force shrinks to report potentially dangerous people to a list the government keeps and thenstop them and anyone they live with from having firearms. The people who did these things were all seriously mental I'll and could buy or had easy access to firearms.
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      11-23-2015, 07:49 AM   #183
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haywood View Post
The scary thing is that most of the terrorists in the Paris attack weren't on any of our watch lists. So, how does the gov't think that their vetting process is sound? In this scenario, if these guys tried to come over, they probably would have made it in based on them not being on any watch lists.
Are you sure that's true?

I know the guy who used a fake passport used one because his real identity was on a terror watch list.

A couple of the other ones were on a terror watch list too.
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      11-23-2015, 07:52 AM   #184
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The scary thing was a couple were and still got through.
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      11-23-2015, 08:06 AM   #185
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The scary thing was a couple were and still got through.
Checks in Europe vs. the US are far different.
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      11-23-2015, 08:17 AM   #186
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Wow, I have never read a thread with so many factual errors and lies spread in just a few pages.

I have no problem with people not wanting refugees, everyone has a right to their opinion. But to just list a bunch of incorrect statements to prove your opinion is just sad.
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      11-23-2015, 08:22 AM   #187
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rossifumi View Post
Wow, I have never read a thread with so many factual errors and lies spread in just a few pages.

I have no problem with people not wanting refugees, everyone has a right to their opinion. But to just list a bunch of incorrect statements to prove your opinion is just sad.
Welcome to the Politics/Religion sub-forum.


Last edited by fecurtis; 11-23-2015 at 08:40 AM..
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      11-23-2015, 08:37 AM   #188
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Not one refugee has been involved in terrorist activity in the country they were taken in by. Most of them are women and children, only two percent are of male fighting age. Hatred from them is propagandist fear mongering and Islamophobia.
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      11-23-2015, 08:40 AM   #189
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If a good guy with a gun had been present, many lives would have been saved.
-------
Exactly what the NRA wants you to believe. Step away from the movies....good guys with guns kill innocent people too. Are we gonna start having old west style shootouts? Just firing back and forth in a crowded theater? Lol...not real life and there are no statistics to back up what you say at all.
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      11-23-2015, 08:44 AM   #190
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc Oc View Post
If a good guy with a gun had been present, many lives would have been saved.
-------
Exactly what the NRA wants you to believe. Step away from the movies....good guys with guns kill innocent people too. Are we gonna start having old west style shootouts? Just firing back and forth in a crowded theater? Lol...not real life and there are no statistics to back up what you say at all.
Maybe I've missed a lot in this thread over the weekend, but has anyone in this thread actually said that if someone had a gun in Paris this wouldn't of happened?
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      11-23-2015, 10:18 AM   #191
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fecurtis View Post
Checks in Europe vs. the US are far different.
Not really. We're relying on the same info. Mostly provided by Greece. If the person has no accessiblerecords, there isn't any way to vette.
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      11-23-2015, 10:20 AM   #192
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Originally Posted by mtowle182 View Post
Not one refugee has been involved in terrorist activity in the country they were taken in by. Most of them are women and children, only two percent are of male fighting age. Hatred from them is propagandist fear mongering and Islamophobia.
3 in the US, though not from this refugee wave, and two of the Paris bombers that were.
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      11-23-2015, 10:21 AM   #193
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc Oc View Post
If a good guy with a gun had been present, many lives would have been saved.
-------
Exactly what the NRA wants you to believe. Step away from the movies....good guys with guns kill innocent people too. Are we gonna start having old west style shootouts? Just firing back and forth in a crowded theater? Lol...not real life and there are no statistics to back up what you say at all.
Actually, no. Carry permit people break less laws and have less crime than any other segment you can pick. Including cops.

In your face statistics.
http://www.gunfacts.info/gun-control...ncealed-carry/
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      11-23-2015, 04:13 PM   #194
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rossifumi View Post
Wow, I have never read a thread with so many factual errors and lies spread in just a few pages.

I have no problem with people not wanting refugees, everyone has a right to their opinion. But to just list a bunch of incorrect statements to prove your opinion is just sad.
Give us some examples?
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      11-23-2015, 05:21 PM   #195
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomHudson View Post
2.6 millions Muslims in the US; last time I checked they weren't involved in any of the gun violence that claimed the lives of how many school age/ college age Americans in their classrooms?

Not disagreeing, just wish the gun lobby group wasn't also the anti immigration/refugee group. Maybe then, we'd actually protect innocent lives...

��
Well, here's one from this month:

"Investigators say Mohammad — who left a note praising Allah — "had far greater intentions to do damage." They say he was carrying flammable petroleum jelly, ziptie handcuffs, night-vision goggles, duct tape and a hammer in his backpack."

There's more smoking gun detail in the article:

http://news.investors.com/ibd-editor...y-mohammad.htm

The majority of media outlets, and the Merced police and University ruled out "any possible religious or political motivation" - but the facts would appear to differ.

Edit: The Umpqua College gunman (Oregon) who killed 10 people in October was also apparently a Muslim ISIS fan:

http://www.barenakedislam.com/2015/1...ic-state-isis/
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      11-23-2015, 05:49 PM   #196
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundguy1 View Post
Actually, no. Carry permit people break less laws and have less crime than any other segment you can pick. Including cops.

In your face statistics.
http://www.gunfacts.info/gun-control...ncealed-carry/
Not my point AT ALL.....
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      11-23-2015, 05:57 PM   #197
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtowle182 View Post
Not one refugee has been involved in terrorist activity in the country they were taken in by. Most of them are women and children, only two percent are of male fighting age. Hatred from them is propagandist fear mongering and Islamophobia.
Or, perhaps it's supported by examples?

Fazliddin Kurbanov, or "Idaho man," as he is dutifully described in the American media, was brought to the U.S. as a refugee in 2009, joining hundreds of other Uzbeks in Boise, Idaho. He came with his wife and young child, his sister and his two ailing parents. So grateful was Kurbanov to America for rescuing his entire family from "persecution" that he spent the next few years conspiring to commit jihad against us. Kurbanov was convicted of various terrorism charges, based on his possession of Tannerite, ammonium nitrate, bullets and aluminum powder, as well as his stated intention, in conversations recorded by the FBI, to bomb military bases in Idaho and Texas. For the cherry on top, the whole welfare-dependent, Islamic terrorist-nurturing family won refugee status in America by claiming they were persecuted in Uzbekistan for being Christians.

A few years ago, the FBI realized we'd let in scores of Iraqi terrorists as "refugees," including Mohanad Shareef Hammadi and Waad Ramadan Alwan -- the latter of whose fingerprints were found on boxes of IEDs seized in Iraq. On FBI surveillance tapes, the men bragged about having used a sniper rifle to kill American soldiers north of Baghdad, blowing up Bradley tanks and building more than a dozen bombs for use against U.S. Troops. After being happily "resettled" into public housing in Bowling Green, Kentucky, they continued their war against America, including one specific Army captain. Soldiers who had survived an IED attack that killed four troops in Iraq were warned by the FBI that their comrades' murderers had been relocated to America -- courtesy of the U.S. government -- and might be coming for them.

The Boston Marathon bombers, Tamerlan and Dzhokhar Tsarnaev, had received asylum in the U.S., before launching the 2013 attacks that left four dead and thousands injured in Boston. That's not including the three Jewish men whose throats Tamerlan slit in Waltham, Massachusetts, a few years earlier. The entire extended Tsarnaev family got asylum based on Russia's brutal crackdown on Chechnyan Muslims -- persecution so unspeakable that various family members continued to vacation there.

To be sure, not all our beloved refugees are Muslim terrorists. Some are Hutu terrorists. A few years ago, we took in a genocidal Rwandan, Beatrice Munyenyezi, as a "refugee." Only after Munyenyezi was granted citizenship did we find out that, as the federal court put it, she had "personally participated in the mass killing of innocent women, men and children merely because they were called Tutsi." Although her American citizenship was revoked, Munyenyezi remains a legal U.S. resident, whom we are supporting in prison for the next decade. Only an immigration court can order her deportation. Which it will not.

Sheikh Omar Abdel-Rahman, or "the Blind Sheik," imprisoned for life in the U.S. for his participation in the 1993 World Trade Center bombing: Asylee.

Ramzi Yousef, ringleader of the 1993 World Trade Center bombing: Asylee.

Egyptian Hesham Mohamed Hadayet, who shot up the El Al ticket counter at the Los Angeles airport, killing two: Refugee.

(hat tip: Ann Coulter)
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      11-23-2015, 06:00 PM   #198
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In Paris? Not that I've heard, f1guy was referring to the Denver shootings. As if having armed civilians who could participate in a shoot out with the killer would be a good thing....
As opposed to having no one armed, and everyone slaughtered? I'd choose "armed civilians for 100, Alex..."
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