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      04-16-2018, 03:01 PM   #243
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeA View Post
Still doesn't answer my question..

How do we know it was Assad who used the chemical weapons and not the rebel groups? It would be counter-productive for Assad to do this when we are pulling our troops back.
We know because the US, UK, France, Germany, Canada, and many others expelled many Russian diplomats who were not "diplomats", but are intelligence operatives. All these countries are not "conspiring" and are not part of some "deep state". That was because the UK presented credible evidence in the Skripol attack.

Many of these same countries are saying Syria attacked its own citizens with Sarin and Chlorine. It was enough to induce the US, UK, and France to attack Syria's Chemical research facility along with Syrian chemical storage facilities. This matter has been widely corroborated and reported on by CNN, WAPO, WSJ, NYT, and many other news outlets. The Russians are not allowing access to the site. No reasonable person would suppose this is some sort of "deep state" conspiracy. Or would suppose there was no chemical attack.

Please attempt to use facts to refute me, not opinion tv (Tucker Carlson is opinion, NOT news).
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      04-16-2018, 03:05 PM   #244
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Originally Posted by cliverman View Post
Unfortunately this thread represents what our country has become. Very polarized. Left / right without compromise. I try to read and watch some all the mass media and firmly believe that "some" of what I read and hear is true. While the rest is purpose driven. Lots of politics and $$ drive the majority of what we are fed.
I disagree. There is really no left/right divide. I would say its a news source divide. Many on here say most news supports the US, UK, & French attack on Syria. Some (George A and others) say there is no evidence. I would challenge anyone to present facts showing there was no attack. Not opinions. Facts.
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      04-16-2018, 03:06 PM   #245
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Real Dodger View Post
We know because the US, UK, France, Germany, Canada, and many others expelled many Russian diplomats who were not "diplomats", but are intelligence operatives. All these countries are not "conspiring" and are not part of some "deep state". That was because the UK presented credible evidence in the Skripol attack.

Many of these same countries are saying Syria attacked its own citizens with Sarin and Chlorine. It was enough to induce the US, UK, and France to attack Syria's Chemical research facility along with Syrian chemical storage facilities. This matter has been widely corroborated and reported on by CNN, WAPO, WSJ, NYT, and many other news outlets. The Russians are not allowing access to the site. No reasonable person would suppose this is some sort of "deep state" conspiracy. Or would suppose there was no chemical attack.

Please attempt to use facts to refute me, not opinion tv (Tucker Carlson is opinion, NOT news).
These nations are saying it must have been Syria, they are still not sure. Also, why would Syria do this to it's own people? Right when the US is packing up to leave?

Again, the question has not been answered. Who sent the gas, rebels or Assad? Makes more sense if the rebels did it because now the US is back in helping them out.
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      04-16-2018, 03:08 PM   #246
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Real Dodger View Post
I disagree. There is really no left/right divide. I would say its a news source divide. Many on here say most news supports the US, UK, & French attack on Syria. Some (George A and others) say there is no evidence. I would challenge anyone to present facts showing there was no attack. Not opinions. Facts.
Show us facts that it was indeed Assad who sent the gas and not the rebels! That would end this argument!
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      04-16-2018, 03:11 PM   #247
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Originally Posted by GeorgeA View Post
Show us facts that it was indeed Assad who sent the gas and not the rebels! That would end this argument!
See my thread "Putin strikes again". But since you are a putin fan/appeaser, you will probably keep arguing. oh. its this thread. Well, keep working hard for Assad/putin.
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      04-16-2018, 03:16 PM   #248
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeA View Post
These nations are saying it must have been Syria, they are still not sure. Also, why would Syria do this to it's own people? Right when the US is packing up to leave?

Again, the question has not been answered. Who sent the gas, rebels or Assad? Makes more sense if the rebels did it because now the US is back in helping them out.
2 things.
1.Excellent point by Minn.
The rebels are out, with relatively little damage to the Assad regime. So it makes much more sense assad did it. Plus, the US tracked a Syrian helicopter in the area at the time it dropped the barrel bomb of chemicals.

2. You are working very hard to absolve assad/putin. Hijacking my thread with numerous hypotheticals that really do not help your argument. CLASSIC kgb/FSB?soviet/russian tactics.
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      04-16-2018, 03:24 PM   #249
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Real Dodger View Post
2 things.
1.Excellent point by Minn.
The rebels are out, with relatively little damage to the Assad regime. So it makes much more sense assad did it. Plus, the US tracked a Syrian helicopter in the area at the time it dropped the barrel bomb of chemicals.

2. You are working very hard to absolve assad/putin. Hijacking my thread with numerous hypotheticals that really do not help your argument. CLASSIC kgb/FSB?soviet/russian tactics.
Why would he have to use chemical weapons to do that? He was winning already, why would he want the US to get back in the game? He could have taken out the rebels with no damage to himself.

2. I want there to be transparency and take into account both sides. Isnít that the point of democracy? Nothing to do with Russia, this is how we discuss issues in the United States. Democracy.
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      04-16-2018, 03:27 PM   #250
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeA View Post
Why would he have to use chemical weapons to do that? He was winning already, why would he want the US to get back in the game? He could have taken out the rebels with no damage to himself.

He hasn't gotten them out of Damascus in 7 years. He uses sarin...and they surrender.

2. I want there to be transparency and take into account both sides. Isnít that the point of democracy? Nothing to do with Russia, this is how we discuss issues in the United States. Democracy.

What transparency?
zz
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      04-16-2018, 03:36 PM   #251
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Real Dodger View Post
zz
If you think the rebels will surrender because Assad kills 40 people with Sarin?

Why didn't they surrender last year?

And yes, democracy is about arguing both sides. Me realizing that the government is acting on allegations and stating that maybe we should think about this further does not make me a "Russian".. It makes me an American.
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      04-16-2018, 03:39 PM   #252
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeA View Post
If you think the rebels will surrender because Assad kills 40 people with Sarin?

Why didn't they surrender last year?

Last years chemical attack was in a different place.

And yes, democracy is about arguing both sides. Me realizing that the government is acting on allegations and stating that maybe we should think about this further does not make me a "Russian".. It makes me an American.
Really? If you have to say it, ?
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      04-16-2018, 03:59 PM   #253
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeA View Post
Why would he have to use chemical weapons to do that? He was winning already, why would he want the US to get back in the game? He could have taken out the rebels with no damage to himself.
Chemical weapons are weapons of terror, not practicality. Women and children of rebel fighters were targeted. This real and psychological threat was certainly the aim, not necessarily how many people died.

Assad probably figured he could use it because the US won't do anything. Syria was already a no-win situation for the US and now Syria has mother Russia as back up. He probably thinks he can do whatever the hell he feels like.

Obama never did anything and Assad's been bombing away ever since. He just didn't realize Trump was watching TV that day. Miscalulation on Assad's part.
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      04-16-2018, 04:04 PM   #254
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Lets not drag on this argument forever, I stated my points in the earlier posts.

These are allegations and have not been proven by any government and acting on allegations to start war is not right. I will stand by this. It also does not make sense as to why Assad would do a chemical attack right when the US is leaving. This attack was clearly done by a party who wants us to stay in the game. The only other party are the rebels who will go to any length to win. As seen with ISIS before, they do not care for human life and we are now helping that group by assaulting Assad.

If Assad is bad, the rebels will be way worse. Thinking and having facts before acting is how the United States should move. Seeing both sides and evaluating facts does not make you any less American, don't be afraid to do so.
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      04-16-2018, 04:07 PM   #255
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imserious View Post
Chemical weapons are weapons of terror, not practicality. Women and children of rebel fighters were targeted. This real and psychological threat was certainly the aim, not necessarily how many people died.

Assad probably figured he could use it because the US won't do anything. Syria was already a no-win situation for the US and now Syria has mother Russia as back up. He probably thinks he can do whatever the hell he feels like.

Obama never did anything and Assad's been bombing away ever since. He just didn't realize Trump was watching TV that day. Miscalulation on Assad's part.
People like Assad don't miscalculate specially with Putin standing besides them.

The civil war has been terrible to both sides, cities have been destroyed and we have been the cause of the rebel uprising. Again, trying to stick our noses where it does not belong. This needs to stop. Not to mention how many innocent lives ISIS has killed and to think we were supporting them angers me.
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      04-16-2018, 04:10 PM   #256
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeA View Post
People like Assad don't miscalculate specially with Putin standing besides them.

The civil war has been terrible to both sides, cities have been destroyed and we have been the cause of the rebel uprising. Again, trying to stick our noses where it does not belong. This needs to stop. Not to mention how many innocent lives ISIS has killed and to think we were supporting them angers me.
Those are still RT/Sputnik/Russian boilerplate justifications/denials. I don't think that's an accident.
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      04-16-2018, 04:13 PM   #257
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeA View Post
People like Assad don't miscalculate specially with Putin standing besides them.

The civil war has been terrible to both sides, cities have been destroyed and we have been the cause of the rebel uprising. Again, trying to stick our noses where it does not belong. This needs to stop. Not to mention how many innocent lives ISIS has killed and to think we were supporting them angers me.
#1 Your argument that the US should not intervene in the affairs of sovereign nations is a valid one and one that I tend to agree with. Fact is everyone who can does it. US, Russia, China, you name it. I don't agree with it.

#2 Your Putin love is pretty strong. I also agree that both sides should be considered and that information sources should be scrutinized, but you seem to agree 100% with russian sources and disagree 100% with US sources. Doesn't that seem a bit hypocritical? Have you ever questioned or disagreed with a Russian news story?
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      04-16-2018, 04:13 PM   #258
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Originally Posted by GeorgeA View Post
As seen with ISIS before, they do not care for human life and we are now helping that group by assaulting Assad.
ISIS wasn't attacked. It was Army of Islam (?), not great guys/girls, but not ISIS. And no, they are not the same thing.
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      04-16-2018, 04:14 PM   #259
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Real Dodger View Post
Those are still RT/Sputnik/Russian boilerplate justifications/denials. I don't think that's an accident.
If you're going to call everyone and anyone who doesn't agree with CNN a "RT/Sputnik/Russian" then there is no point in arguing with you and you definitely don't understand the concept of the United States.

You would do better in a dictatorship where only one view is allowed.
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      04-16-2018, 04:17 PM   #260
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeA View Post
If you're going to call everyone and anyone who doesn't agree with CNN a "RT/Sputnik/Russian" then there is no point in arguing with you and you definitely don't understand the concept of the United States.

You would do better in a dictatorship where only one view is allowed.
Everything you just said is wrong.
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      04-16-2018, 04:24 PM   #261
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Originally Posted by imserious View Post
#1 Your argument that the US should not intervene in the affairs of sovereign nations is a valid one and one that I tend to agree with. Fact is everyone who can does it. US, Russia, China, you name it. I don't agree with it.

#2 Your Putin love is pretty strong. I also agree that both sides should be considered and that information sources should be scrutinized, but you seem to agree 100% with russian sources and disagree 100% with US sources. Doesn't that seem a bit hypocritical? Have you ever questioned or disagreed with a Russian news story?
1. I agree that all the major powers do it, and I believe its wrong. We are on the same page there.

2. Of course I have, in this particular situation though, what the Russian/Syrian government is saying makes more sense. I also respect Putin because he does his job well, he is a great leader for Russia. My hope is that we can work together to benefit both of our economies and that's usually what Putin pushes for as well (which makes sense because the US is a huge economy).. Between this and the spy case, it seems like the West is really trying to stir some dirt on Russia which is NOT what anyone wants. The bigger question is, why? Why so against Putin?

3. I am currently not completely taking sides, I will stay neutral until further information is discovered. I do believe bombing Syria without this proof is incorrect. Americans don't need another war.
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      04-16-2018, 04:26 PM   #262
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Real Dodger View Post
Everything you just said is wrong.
So you're saying I am incorrect in saying that we don't for sure know who used the chemical weapon?
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      04-16-2018, 04:31 PM   #263
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeA View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Real Dodger View Post
Everything you just said is wrong.
So you're saying I am incorrect in saying that we don't for sure know who used the chemical weapon?
Not what I said at all. And I still can't even say nice try.
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      04-16-2018, 04:36 PM   #264
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Real Dodger View Post
Not what I said at all. And I still can't even say nice try.
That was my initial statement so you either

A - misread what I wrote

or

B - were WRONG about everything I said being wrong.
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