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View Poll Results: Vote if you support Capitalism vs. Socialism
Capitalism 70 93.33%
Socialism 5 6.67%
Voters: 75. You may not vote on this poll

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      03-11-2019, 09:07 AM   #23
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Why can't we see who voted which way?
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      03-11-2019, 09:14 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BimmerBoomer View Post
Without public education and infrastructure capitalism would be stuck in the steam age.
Yes, but what does that have to do with Capitalism vs Socialism?
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      03-11-2019, 09:15 AM   #25
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Socialism has a 100% failure rate. Capitalism is the unequal distribution of wealth, Socialism the equal distribution of poverty.
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      03-11-2019, 09:25 AM   #26
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Capitalism doesn't distribute the wealth it let's it go where productivity is. You take it away and redistribute with socialism it would end back in the same hands because even if everyone had equal rights they dont have equal productivity.
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      03-11-2019, 09:56 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grumpy Old Man View Post
Yes, but what does that have to do with Capitalism vs Socialism?
The theorem Capitalism vs Socialism is very black/white.
As much as people think socialism has a 100% failure rate, so has capitalism.
There isn't a 100% capitalist state on earth, and certainly not a large one.
There are an infitite number of variations between "capitalism' and "socialism", and making a poll dividing it into only "capitalism" and "socialism", makes it foremost an attractive poll and statement for people who don't like to think. Imho stupid people think in terms of "capitalism" vs "socialism", and smart people debate about where inbetween the balance should be set.
Would you like to have the army to be 100% subjected to a laissez-faire economy? Or the building of roads? Would be very interesting, turning in every street to find yourself in front of a toll booth chucking in some pennies all the time.
Also very nice if you live in the middle of nowhere, being a farmer working on America's dominant 'grain engine' but apparantly too remote to have a decent medical clinic in reasonable vicinity because that had to shut down due to a slightly negative balance, so your wife can't give labour under medical attention, or getting medical attention in case of an emergency is a 3 hour drive away.. (This is a real world problem)
People here seem to be very occupied what a 100% socialist state looks like, but what a 100% capitalist state looks like they have no idea.
And thinking in nuances seems to be too far of a mental reach for a lot of people here. Must be an american thing as you predominantly see this on fora with a lot of americans.
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      03-11-2019, 10:08 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GuidoK View Post
Imho stupid people think in terms of "capitalism" vs "socialism", and smart people debate about where inbetween the balance should be set.
.
This.

It's that "inbetween" that has made/kept America at the top of the food chain and that China is experimenting with under communist rule.

Unfortunately that "inbetween" is starting to fray and voila, here we are focusing on the extremes of either side because they've become more mainstream.

Elizabeth Warren's plan ie: "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few" is interesting. I'd love to see how many would flee the US to avoid the annual 2% if it were ever applied.
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      03-11-2019, 10:08 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmyx6go View Post
I hope people get out and vote in 2020 and their common sense overrules their hate. If not, I fear the future if any of these far left candidates get elected.
Problem is, some of these far left candidates have already gotten elected. Sanders, Warren, AOC and her bigoted friends. I am amazed that the public could vote for people with such anti-American views and flagrant hatred.
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      03-11-2019, 10:14 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Real Dodger View Post
Why can't we see who voted which way?
DocB needs go to back to forum tools and set views to visible.

I know there is one error in responding but I'm quite curious who believes in socialism.
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      03-11-2019, 10:14 AM   #31
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well Grumpy...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grumpy Old Man View Post
Yes, but what does that have to do with Capitalism vs Socialism?
Nowhere is it written in stone which economic activities should be privately owned and "for profit" and which should be publicly owned and pursued for the public good. Even the U.S. is very much a mixed economy.
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      03-11-2019, 10:21 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BimmerBoomer View Post
Nowhere is it written in stone which economic activities should be privately owned and "for profit" and which should be publicly owned and pursued for the public good. Even the U.S. is very much a mixed economy.
While Public Private Partnerships have been used throughout history under different monikers, it has truly been in the late 20th and 21st centuries that it has become much more prominent.

The backbone of American success has been through small to medium sized business employing the vast majority of our population fueling economic growth, innovation, and flexibility that large brobdingnagian organizations cannot match culturally or in execution. Even innovators such as Amazon or Google have their innovation fueled via acquisition just like old-economy though still current giants Exxon, etc.

Socialism is a dead end. If you doubt it go down to your local DMV.

Cheers-mk
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      03-11-2019, 10:22 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKSixer View Post

I know there is one error in responding but I'm quite curious who believes in socialism.
Will you take them to task?
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      03-11-2019, 10:27 AM   #34
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Putin's Russia/Trump's USA...

[QUOTE=GuidoK;24499471
People here seem to be very occupied what a 100% socialist state looks like, but what a 100% capitalist state looks like they have no idea.
[/QUOTE]

As a state moves toward 100% capitalism it will inevitably collapse into an autocratic kleptocracy where the winners use the levers of justice to dispossess the losers.
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      03-11-2019, 10:30 AM   #35
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Neither is perfect... both have massive faults.

The advantage of capitalism is flexibility for workers... if you think about it at it's core; the end all goal is eerily similar.

It all ends with a select few controlling everything... a perfect social environment is effectively communist, a perfect capitalist environment is a part monopoly / oligarchy with minimal competition as all competition has already been stifled.

We've seen both systems already fail... socialism effectively forever and capitalism in 2009 in the USA.
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      03-11-2019, 10:31 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BimmerBoomer View Post
As a state moves toward 100% capitalism it will inevitably collapse into an autocratic kleptocracy where the winners use the levers of justice to dispossess the losers.
that's absolutely correct... effectively corporations and the mass owners run everything... the players are different yet its somehow eerily similar to socialism
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      03-11-2019, 10:33 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by .2pdk View Post
Will you take them to task?
Nope. Will simply ask them why they haven't made a move to their idea of nirvana. There are some real winners on the list!!

I must say that in all my time of dealing with people who love socialists states, not a single one has taken me up on my offer to buy a 1-way, first class ticket to the the socialist heaven of their choice. I've been doing this since I first turned conservative in my early 20's. Haven't bought a ticket yet.
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      03-11-2019, 10:36 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ASAP View Post
Neither is perfect... both have massive faults.

The advantage of capitalism is flexibility for workers... if you think about it at it's core; the end all goal is eerily similar.

It all ends with a select few controlling everything... a perfect social environment is effectively communist, a perfect capitalist environment is a part monopoly / oligarchy with minimal competition as all competition has already been stifled.

We've seen both systems already fail... socialism effectively forever and capitalism in 2009 in the USA.
Capitalism didn't fail in the USA in 2009. It was ill and threw up a bit but didn't fail.
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      03-11-2019, 10:48 AM   #39
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hmm...

Where did all of the rich socialist countries disappear to MKSixer? Scandinavia? Put together a list of shithole countries and declare victory? Nice.
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      03-11-2019, 10:52 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKSixer View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ASAP View Post
Neither is perfect... both have massive faults.

The advantage of capitalism is flexibility for workers... if you think about it at it's core; the end all goal is eerily similar.

It all ends with a select few controlling everything... a perfect social environment is effectively communist, a perfect capitalist environment is a part monopoly / oligarchy with minimal competition as all competition has already been stifled.

We've seen both systems already fail... socialism effectively forever and capitalism in 2009 in the USA.
Capitalism didn't fail in the USA in 2009. It was ill and threw up a bit but didn't fail.
u dont save companies in capitlist environment it failed... and govt came and saved it... i am a repub but this is the sad truth
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      03-11-2019, 11:07 AM   #41
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what the poll should be asking...

If the "socialist" Dems win in 2020 and introduce Medicare for all, will the U.S. more closely resemble:

1. Canada or;
2. Zambia?
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      03-11-2019, 11:17 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ASAP View Post
u dont save companies in capitlist environment it failed... and govt came and saved it... i am a repub but this is the sad truth
Agreed, in a pure capitalist scenario they should have all been allowed to fail.

Then again all that can't eat or afford medical attention should be allowed to die on the street under that scenario.

There is an "inbetween" that has to be constantly tweaked to keep the majority happy as best can be.

The US has mastered this better than any nation.

Canada and Scandinavia for example have taken that inbetween more towards the left and works for them as sharing for the good of the nation trumps greed.

Innovation and growth there is simply not at the level that it is in the US.

Greed has served the US very well so far...
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      03-11-2019, 11:21 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by .2pdk View Post
This.

It's that "inbetween" that has made/kept America at the top of the food chain and that China is experimenting with under communist rule.

Unfortunately that "inbetween" is starting to fray and voila, here we are focusing on the extremes of either side because they've become more mainstream.

Elizabeth Warren's plan ie: "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few" is interesting. I'd love to see how many would flee the US to avoid the annual 2% if it were ever applied.
The ones that can, will.

What people dont realize is nothing like this really affects the super wealthy. Its affects the middle to upper middle class the most.

2% of someone making millions, isnt going to bankrupt them. 2% of someone living paycheck to paycheck or slightly better, is going to make a difference.

$1k to someone making $50k (bottom bracket of middle class) is several months worth of bills, or a month of rent/mortgage, etc.
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      03-11-2019, 11:24 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWatchGuy View Post
The ones that can, will.

What people dont realize is nothing like this really affects the super wealthy. Its affects the middle to upper middle class the most.
I believe her plan calls for 2% wealth tax annually above $50 million.

I agree, there will be a bracket that leaves but those in the stratosphere will most likely pay up I suspect.
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