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      04-30-2019, 02:39 PM   #23
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They’ve all gotten preposterously fast, to the point that the performance really isn’t useable on the street anymore. Numbers are one thing, but I think I’d prefer to own a 430 Scuderia or a 458 over the newest crop of twin turbo cars. Or if someone wanted to really twist my arm, an F12.
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      04-30-2019, 03:17 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by GuidoK View Post
I think McLaren has beaten Ferrari in terms of overall performance and trackability, but I don't know if they've beaten Ferrari in terms of emotion (sound, styling, feel).

Bro, are you telling me that if you were sat in a McLaren that you wouldn't feel emotional sound, style or feeling? I know Ferarri has the long history and lineage but McLaren pushes boundaries just as much as Ferarri

Idk what cars you own/have owned but in my opinion, anything in that range is just another league that I would consider special. No average Joe is hopping into a McLaren, taking it for a spin and being like, ehhh it was alright.

You'd come out that car feeling like it was an unbelievable experience
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      04-30-2019, 04:14 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Savageenterprise View Post
Bro, are you telling me that if you were sat in a McLaren that you wouldn't feel emotional sound, style or feeling? I know Ferarri has the long history and lineage but McLaren pushes boundaries just as much as Ferarri

Idk what cars you own/have owned but in my opinion, anything in that range is just another league that I would consider special. No average Joe is hopping into a McLaren, taking it for a spin and being like, ehhh it was alright.

You'd come out that car feeling like it was an unbelievable experience
Exactlyy. guys get carried away sometimes and take cars like this for granted because they are used to fast cars.
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      04-30-2019, 04:57 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Savageenterprise View Post
Bro, are you telling me that if you were sat in a McLaren that you wouldn't feel emotional sound, style or feeling? I know Ferarri has the long history and lineage but McLaren pushes boundaries just as much as Ferarri

Idk what cars you own/have owned but in my opinion, anything in that range is just another league that I would consider special. No average Joe is hopping into a McLaren, taking it for a spin and being like, ehhh it was alright.
It's not a comparison between what cars I have, but compared to eachother (so for example a 458 versus 12c or 488 versus 650).
And I didnt say that mclaren wouldnt give me any emotion, you're twisting my words.
I said that I'm not sure the McLarens would give me more emotion/feel than the Ferraris, and that's something different than what you say I said.
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      04-30-2019, 05:07 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GuidoK View Post
It's not a comparison between what cars I have, but compared to eachother (so for example a 458 versus 12c or 488 versus 650).
And I didnt say that mclaren wouldnt give me any emotion, you're twisting my words.
I said that I'm not sure the McLarens would give me more emotion/feel than the Ferraris, and that's something different than what you say I said.
^This. I certainly wouldn't turn down a free 650S, but if it was my money and I was having to choose between a McLaren and a Ferrari - the choice is a no brainer for me. Prancing horse all the way.
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      04-30-2019, 05:13 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Run Silent View Post
^This. I certainly wouldn't turn down a free 650S, but if it was my money and I was having to choose between a McLaren and a Ferrari - the choice is a no brainer for me. Prancing horse all the way.
I have to agree here. I don't think there is a right or wrong but my personal choice would be the same whether my budget is $150k or $300k - I'd be looking at a Ferrari.
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      04-30-2019, 06:07 PM   #29
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Arrow Emotion...

Quote:
Originally Posted by eatsleepboost View Post
I am very active on the McLaren forums and am on there daily as I Search for a 12c to own. Have been on there for almost 6 months reading everything...
Have you seen this old video from FifthGear... You can see how much they wanted to love the Mclaren.... but in the end it was emotion and passion of the Ferrari which won them over.

That said... I think McLaren have come a long, long way with their newer models. The new 600LT is getting rave reviews from everyone. I also like how you can get power and suspension upgrades from McLaren for your older car(12c).


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      04-30-2019, 06:19 PM   #30
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The 720s is mind blowing, but as someone has already said; with any one of these cars that trap over 130 mph in the 1/4; speed effectively becomes irrelevant. Its not usable on the streets... what is left is emotion, soul, and just overall character.

I think the Mclaren is brilliant but what Ferrari has over it in my honest opinion, is interior design which is miles ahead of Mclaren and overall sexiness... the 488 is in my opinion a pinnacle of design.
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      04-30-2019, 06:41 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dackelone View Post

That said... I think McLaren have come a long, long way with their newer models. The new 600LT is getting rave reviews from everyone. I also like how you can get power and suspension upgrades from McLaren for your older car(12c).


The funny thing is, as far as mclarens go I think I like the looks of the 12c best.
Its more a classic look, somewhere between an evora and a koenigsegg.
I never liked the front looks of the 57/6xx and P1. Far too much stylized (a bit like they wanted to force a "mclaren look"
The 720 I like better, always have (there is a topic here where the initial press releases where discussed, and it was pretty much all negative).
But that they change the looks of their cars so often (where they are all basically the same car more or less) in such a short time is for me a sign that they're still looking for brand recognition.
Ferrari and Lamborghini dont have that problem imho. Obviously they have generations (F355-360 was a generation change, both in looks and in tech, and so was the 599 with its predecessor), but their design 'path' is more logical, less messy.

I think the mclaren interior design is nothing special. Both ferrari and lamborghini have a more distinct interior design that matches with their exterior design elements. Only in the past (pre 2008 or thereabout, so gallardo-murcialago era)) some Lamborghini interiors now look dated because of the tech used back then. But that was before the audi era and its very difficult (certainly back then) to come up with a modern interior (tech wise) for a very small manufacturer..
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      04-30-2019, 07:06 PM   #32
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I’m a big fan of the 720S, but boy...that video doesn’t do the car any favors. It’s a selection of awfully-modded, instagram-spec vehicles, doing 0-30 “pulls” on residential streets and a lot of obnoxious stationary revving to show that yes indeed the car shoots flames.

I was recently in the market for a car in this category and went McLaren. I do feel McLaren punched Ferrari a bit in the mouth there and put them on their back foot. Mclaren also represents better performance per dollar value than Ferrari right now (the flip side of that argument is that the former will depreciate much faster).

But the fun is in seeing how Ferrari will respond. The Tributo will come out and we’ll see if it’s an effective counterpunch
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      04-30-2019, 08:12 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GuidoK View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dackelone View Post

That said... I think McLaren have come a long, long way with their newer models. The new 600LT is getting rave reviews from everyone. I also like how you can get power and suspension upgrades from McLaren for your older car(12c).


The funny thing is, as far as mclarens go I think I like the looks of the 12c best.
As good as the front is, the back is bad. And unlike the Gallardo, there's no mid cycle fix you can graft on.

[IMG]https://www.autoguide.com/blog/wp-co...C-Retro-14.JPG[/IMG]
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      04-30-2019, 08:23 PM   #34
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Looks pretty much like the 650 rear except for the black part swooping up from the diffuser:
12c


650



But I know what you mean :

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      04-30-2019, 08:30 PM   #35
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Man I hate the stupid third pipe on the 458. Awesome on the F40 when it was functional. Dumb as hell on the 458. Bad homage is bad homage.

Hi, I'm Debbie Downer today.
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      04-30-2019, 08:36 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Savageenterprise View Post
Bro, are you telling me that if you were sat in a McLaren that you wouldn't feel emotional sound, style or feeling? I know Ferarri has the long history and lineage but McLaren pushes boundaries just as much as Ferarri

Idk what cars you own/have owned but in my opinion, anything in that range is just another league that I would consider special. No average Joe is hopping into a McLaren, taking it for a spin and being like, ehhh it was alright.

You'd come out that car feeling like it was an unbelievable experience
....Ive sat in them all including the P1, and ofcourse they felt special as they are radical designs, but that has nothing to do with anything. No average joe is looking at any of these cars so the point is moot, anyone looking to purchase these new are comparing them to ferrari, lambo, and Porsche...which by the way to the OP original point, the GT2 RS is probably the best all around supercar today!
They are compared in many ways, and emotion is huge and while some may choose Mclarens, most would not and that ok, to each their own style, as others have said this is not about usable performance as 99.9999 are not for track use, so they are art in motion so to speak and transcend being mere transportation.
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      04-30-2019, 08:40 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Bread View Post
Man I hate the stupid third pipe on the 458.
Well they've corrected that on the 488, the mclaren 650 nemesis.

As far as really choosing between ferrari and mclaren, I'd have to drive it and look at the cost (obviously thats my real issue )...
I like cars I can toss and throw around on a twisty road or alpine pass and do the occasional drift or powerslide on a junction.
I think both cars are not really suitable for that, they will both get me killed, way to fast and competent...
As far as supercars go, the gallardo 550-2 with a manual (preferably a tricolore) is probably my cup of tea, but I dont know if I have the balls to do that with such a car (doing the crazy stuff I mean).

As long as you're not trying to win races, how fast you're going is far less important than how fast it feels that you're going.
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Last edited by GuidoK; 04-30-2019 at 08:47 PM..
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      04-30-2019, 08:50 PM   #38
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Even the Speciale fixed it. 1,00x better.

[IMG]http://cdn.luxuo.com/2013/08/Ferrari...ciale-back.jpg[/IMG]
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      04-30-2019, 09:01 PM   #39
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I bet all the 720S's in that video have aftermarket exhausts; stock exhaust on the 720S sounds like shit!
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      04-30-2019, 09:18 PM   #40
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"If you want to go to the track, buy the GT3. If you want to be astonished, buy the Ferrari ... It's perfect. " Jeremy Clarkson.

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      05-01-2019, 04:20 PM   #41
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fast only lasts so long. Cars always get faster. Just like how newer cars with screens everywhere will look dated... while a car with nice analog gauges will never be outdated. Quality of the performance matters more than quantity.

Mclarens depreciate like crazy too. I bought my 458 3 years ago for around 200k. At the time the 650s was newer and quite a bit more money ~250k. Now the 2015 650s goes for about the same price as a 2010 458, despite them having a similar MSRP when new.

The 2015 458 speciale is now worth 100-150k more than the 2016 675 LT (they both had the same msrp when new, and the LT is by far the faster car)

why? one reason is no one wants to own McLaren out of warranty or pay the ridiculous warranty prices. Modern Ferrari's and porsches by comparison are pretty bulletproof.
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      05-01-2019, 04:23 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Bread View Post
Man I hate the stupid third pipe on the 458. Awesome on the F40 when it was functional. Dumb as hell on the 458. Bad homage is bad homage.

Hi, I'm Debbie Downer today.
its functional. At low speeds the exhaust is routed through the center pipe. At high speeds the valves open and route it only through the outer 2. Any aftermarket 458 exhaust will have a dummy middle pipe or just eliminate it completely.
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      05-01-2019, 04:32 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Humdizzle View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Bread View Post
Man I hate the stupid third pipe on the 458. Awesome on the F40 when it was functional. Dumb as hell on the 458. Bad homage is bad homage.

Hi, I'm Debbie Downer today.
its functional. At low speeds the exhaust is routed through the center pipe. At high speeds the valves open and route it only through the outer 2. Any aftermarket 458 exhaust will have a dummy middle pipe or just eliminate it completely.
Exactly. Delete it. It's just as silly as the CTR having three. Complexity for complexity's sake should be the last thing Ferrari is doing.
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      05-02-2019, 09:04 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Humdizzle View Post
fast only lasts so long. Cars always get faster. Just like how newer cars with screens everywhere will look dated... while a car with nice analog gauges will never be outdated. Quality of the performance matters more than quantity.

Mclarens depreciate like crazy too. I bought my 458 3 years ago for around 200k. At the time the 650s was newer and quite a bit more money ~250k. Now the 2015 650s goes for about the same price as a 2010 458, despite them having a similar MSRP when new.

The 2015 458 speciale is now worth 100-150k more than the 2016 675 LT (they both had the same msrp when new, and the LT is by far the faster car)

why? one reason is no one wants to own McLaren out of warranty or pay the ridiculous warranty prices. Modern Ferrari's and porsches by comparison are pretty bulletproof.
This would matter far more to me than a comparison test where one car was judged to be slightly better than the other. If the numbers are accurate an additional $100k - $150k over the time I own it would matter as this is over an additional $1000 per month. Wouldn't matter if I could afford it, the cars are too similar to want to throw this money away.

Often wondered what the true cost of a 458 purchased today, driven 4k miles a year and sold 5 years from now. Possibly not that extreme?

Buy it for $185k and 5 years from now it is worth $150K? and I lost $7k a year in depreciation plus maintenance and repair (all rough estimates not based on a lot)? Buying a new Corvette would remove maintenance and repair but the depreciation would be similar and at 20k miles over 5 years even the 458 would have manageable maintenance and repair?
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Last edited by David70; 05-02-2019 at 10:47 AM..
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