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      01-29-2020, 06:09 PM   #23
GeorgeA
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Oh here we go again. A 997 C or CS isn't an upgrade over the M3. It is lighter and more rear bias, just depends on what you want. I find it a little boring since it's more prone to understeering (I love oversteer). I enjoy driving boxster's more, they are slower but better balanced in my opinion, also half the price. So I kept the M3 and got a 986 Boxster.

If you want an upgrade, shoot for a GT3, but even then they drive very differently.
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      01-29-2020, 06:18 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tooloud10 View Post
A base 996 is actually over 800 lbs lighter than a base E92 M3.

E92 M3: 3704 lbs
996 C2: 2901 lbs (803 lbs lighter)
997 C2: 3075 lbs (629 lbs lighter)
991 C2: 3042 lbs (662 lbs lighter)

911 C2s are an average of 698 lbs lighter depending on the year. Even my 4WD 996 is 672 lbs lighter than an E92 M3.
991 C2 completely base with a manual (very hard to find) is 3153 pounds listed for 2017 MY

A stripper M3 is definitely not 3700 pounds. Thats a fully loaded sunroof DCT car if that. Most guys here are around 3450-3600 pounds. My car is a sunroof DCT car and scales in at 3590 pounds.

Difference is around 400 pounds between a RWD base 911 and a similarly equipped M3 and around 100hp depending on the 911 body.
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      01-29-2020, 06:39 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tooloud10 View Post
Comparing base cars--which seems to be the only logical way to do it--the 997.1S coupe is 573 lbs lighter than the E92.
My E92 came in at 3605lbs. My C2S was just under 3200lbs. What I actually weighed in.
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      01-29-2020, 07:15 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave07997S View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by tooloud10 View Post
Comparing base cars--which seems to be the only logical way to do it--the 997.1S coupe is 573 lbs lighter than the E92.
My E92 came in at 3605lbs. My C2S was just under 3200lbs. What I actually weighed in.
My 991.1GTS is 3,186lbs. It's devastatingly lighter and vastly more capable with a superior mechanical grip. To argue otherwise is to indulge in bias, not facts!

That said, I enjoy driving the E92 a lot more due to its raucous V8 power plant and hydraulic steering rack.

Hence I'll say it again, it's best to own both and I often drive them back to back to criticize and appreciate what each has to offer.
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      01-31-2020, 01:00 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bemo View Post
My 991.1GTS is 3,186lbs. It's devastatingly lighter and vastly more capable with a superior mechanical grip. To argue otherwise is to indulge in bias, not facts!

That said, I enjoy driving the E92 a lot more due to its raucous V8 power plant and hydraulic steering rack.

Hence I'll say it again, it's best to own both and I often drive them back to back to criticize and appreciate what each has to offer.
I don't think no one is doubting this...I felt I enjoyed my E92 M3 more than my 997.1S due to the engine, similar to what you expressed. My 997.1S weighted 3186lbs according to Intercity transport who shipped my car from Olmstead Porsche in Ohio to my home in Cali. The same as your GTS.

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Last edited by Dave07997S; 01-31-2020 at 01:07 PM..
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      02-02-2020, 12:57 PM   #28
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I recently had the opportunity to drive a 991.2 GT3, the experience was eye opening!

Time to sell my low mileage 2013 E92 M3!
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      02-02-2020, 01:07 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brake_Dust View Post
I recently had the opportunity to drive a 991.2 GT3, the experience was eye opening!

Time to sell my low mileage 2013 E92 M3!
If I have the opportunity, Iíll keep the M along with a GT3.
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      02-02-2020, 07:28 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brake_Dust View Post
I recently had the opportunity to drive a 991.2 GT3, the experience was eye opening!

Time to sell my low mileage 2013 E92 M3!
Its amazing. I'm having a really hard time deciding between the gt3 manual and the gt3rs.
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      02-03-2020, 06:58 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nycplumber View Post
Its amazing. I'm having a really hard time deciding between the gt3 manual and the gt3rs.
yeah im torn between getting an F12 TDF or just going all out for this pagani ive had my eye on. my low mileage M3 is so slow compared to those!!
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      02-03-2020, 11:50 AM   #32
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While I am not trading in my M3 for a PCar, the Pcar is absolutely the next car on my list. Yes the engine power bang for the buck is not even close to the M3, but to drive one is sublime. I dont know or care as much if its worth that money, after driving them I want one lol.
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      02-03-2020, 04:27 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bemo View Post
I love my 991.1GTS and E92 M3. Neither car can replace the other so it's best to own both.

The 911 is significantly lighter and has superior mechanical grip. The seats are not as comfortable, the cabin is louder as it's less insulated and the electric steering is somewhat less lively. The chassis is made of diamonds and tells you what's going on, best to have a sensitive butt.

The E92 is much more comfortable and quieter for an everyday sports car. The hydraulic steering is amazing and the deep authoritative rumble of the V8 is light years ahead of the flat six. The suspension is softer but the car is significantly heavier and easily unsettled over uneven road surfaces, not sure why.

Decide for yourself, you write the check...
I own a 991.1 C2S and an E92 M3 as well and Bemo is spot on.

Also want to point out that some of the plastic components on the door and dash of the interior look and feel cheap, especially when compared to the M3 with its overall softer leather. The full leather option looks more fitting.

Interestingly the 911 seems to glide over potholes compared to the M despite stiffer chassis and suspension.
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      02-03-2020, 08:36 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bemo View Post
I love my 991.1GTS and E92 M3. Neither car can replace the other so it's best to own both.

The 911 is significantly lighter and has superior mechanical grip. The seats are not as comfortable, the cabin is louder as it's less insulated and the electric steering is somewhat less lively. The chassis is made of diamonds and tells you what's going on, best to have a sensitive butt.

The E92 is much more comfortable and quieter for an everyday sports car. The hydraulic steering is amazing and the deep authoritative rumble of the V8 is light years ahead of the flat six. The suspension is softer but the car is significantly heavier and easily unsettled over uneven road surfaces, not sure why.

Decide for yourself, you write the check...
This is the truth.
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      02-03-2020, 09:27 PM   #35
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I would never sell my M for another 911. Fast as they are, the hard seats and noisy cabin kill the fun on trips longer than an hour or 2.
I'm 42 and exercise fairly regularly so no issues with weight, ingress, egress, etc.

Don't be blinded by the other side, drive a lot and for long periods of time before deciding. At current prices especially a well sorted out E9X ///M is impossible to beat as an all around sports car.
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      02-04-2020, 09:47 AM   #36
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IĒm on the side you kind of need both a car like the M3 and a secondary, more focused car to go with it. The M3 is the tits but doesnít quite scratch the light weight sports car itch. M3 + S2000/Miata/Cayman is the way to go and covers all the bases imo. Owning both an M3 and 911 makes a little less sense to me since there is more overlap there. Having said that, some 911s are different enough from the M3 to justify having both in the garage.

Last edited by 850tgul; 02-04-2020 at 10:02 AM..
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      02-04-2020, 10:55 AM   #37
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I switched from e90 m3 to 997.2 c2s half a year ago after my m3 was totaled. Thought about getting another e9x but at the end decided to try something different. Partly due to donít want to live under the constant fear of rod bearing failure.

True that HP is lower in the 997.2 but the car being lighter it is still a faster car than the m3. And with the car being lighter, braking and handling are so much better. The 911 is a better driver car, period.

Yes it is more expensive, not just the initial purchase price but also parts and mods. Also being a less common car the used parts market is less liquid than the m3. It all adds to the cost of ownership.

But on the flip side, laymen see a 911 as the more exotic / prestige car than the m3, side benefits are valet / other drivers tends to be more careful with / around the 911, you gets more compliments from laymen etc. However if you are getting a base / s, you will always crave for a gt3 / rsÖ with the m3 youíre done, there are no better 3 series...

Obviously itís not as practical as the m3, but as far as a sports car goes itís quite practical, especially if you have kids. I was going to either get a Cayman or 911 now thinking back Iím so glad I got the 911, with the 2 backseats I can take the kids out for errands => more drive time and more happier miles.

Although I still miss the m3, especially the engine. It revs higher, in my opinion sounds better (I have been modding the 911 exhaust but now I have come to accept it will just be different from the m3). But all in all Iím happy with my 911.
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      02-04-2020, 11:47 AM   #38
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The Porsche market is definitely very inflated right now. The economy has been roaring for years and more people can now afford luxury goods (same with Rolex, Chanel, etc). All have gone up in price significantly and seem to stay at an inflated value.
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      02-04-2020, 02:18 PM   #39
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I am in the same market as the OP.

My fun car HAS to be naturally aspirated, so the current M3 is out of the question.

The kicker for me is I could get by with the M3 as a single car, with the 997 i'd need to keep my wagon. Hand over heart i want the porsche, i'm not getting nay younger and feel it is time for a stupid car. The BMW also worries me from a reliability perspective, they seem horribly expensive to keep on the road .
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      02-04-2020, 02:33 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Longboarder View Post
The e92 M3 is car Porsche didn't build but BMW did. Porsche doesn't have a practical everyday coupe/sedan with plenty of room and a NA motor that revs beyond 8,000 rpm with over 400 hp but if they did, it would be a lot like the e92 M3.

So keep the M3 and just think it was made by Porsche because it's soooo good I feel like it was.
It only goes to 7100rpm, but you're describing the Panamera GTS before everything went turbo.
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      02-04-2020, 02:39 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saeyedoc View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Longboarder View Post
The e92 M3 is car Porsche didn't build but BMW did. Porsche doesn't have a practical everyday coupe/sedan with plenty of room and a NA motor that revs beyond 8,000 rpm with over 400 hp but if they did, it would be a lot like the e92 M3.

So keep the M3 and just think it was made by Porsche because it's soooo good I feel like it was.
It only goes to 7100rpm, but you're describing the Panamera GTS before everything went turbo.
Pretty much every manufacturer has a motor that can rev to 7,100. When you get above 8,000, you are in a very elite league as the cost of the motor becomes prohibitive because of the added complexity to spin that fast relatively reliably.
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      02-04-2020, 05:12 PM   #42
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It seems like the OP's heart is in the 997, while his head is with the M car. I've learned my lesson about buying car with my head. Ultimately looking back I should have bought the car with my heart.

It's not that different from marriage - with your heart.
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      02-05-2020, 12:42 AM   #43
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I could go on and on. For one the 911 is designed from the ground up as a sports car. The M3 starts as a f30 320d and they mod it up from there. The M engineers have to start their work with a compromise.

The engine is behind you. Sorry but front engine cars are nowhere near as balanced as mid or rear engine cars. Look at the top 'ring times... the viper is the fastest front engine car and ranks #10.

911s hold value better. they make leases difficult on purpose as to not dilute the brand like BMW does with the M cars. They know exactly what they're doing when it comes to supply and demand to make sure their customers don't get taken to the cleaners when it comes time to sell, especially with GT3 models. Meanwhile you can get crazy good deals on year old M3CS cars sitting on lots.

When the 991 gt3 was having engine issues. They not only recalled all the cars, but slapped on a long ass warranty as well. Meanwhile BMW won't acknowledge crank hub issues.
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      02-05-2020, 05:37 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by porsche959 View Post
Been looking at 997 911s as a potential alternative to an e90 m3 (also looking at e60 m5s) but can’t seem to get over the fact that you get so much more engine for the $$ with the BMW m cars.

For those of you that own/owned/considered both, what made you tilt one way or the other?
https://trackeasy.fun/usps/ https://showbox.tools/
Pcar probably better handling, but significantly down on power. Also from a pricing perspective, Porsche seems artificially high (but that’s been the case for about a decade now).
Hello everyone,,
The 2020 Porsche Taycan Turbo is the next evolution for electric vehicles and pushes EV performance past straight-line acceleration and party tricks into supercar realms. It’s a rival for the Tesla Model S in the sense that they’re both cars with four wheels—five if you count the steering wheel. Beyond those, the Taycan and Model S share fewer similarities than the surface of the sun and a grilled cheese sandwich.

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